1.07 - Putting Yourself Back After Divorce with Renee Lawless

In this episode, Renee Lawless shares her story of life and parenting after divorce. We discuss the challenge of differing parenting philosophies in the home, how to handle parenting feedback, and what it truly means to get parenting "right." She also shares a visualization technique fundamental in her home for engaging big emotions. It's a must listen!

Renee coaches individuals who are struggling with a feeling of powerlessness to manage their life and its many transitions so they feel FEARLESS to live life by their rules and to live lawless.

Guest: Renee Lawless

• Website: https://coachlawless.com/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/coachreneelawless/

Host: Tina Unrue

• Podcast Why: 1.00 Trailer
• Website: www.selfishmama.com
• Newsletter: Selfish Mama Insider
• Facebook/Meta: @SelfishMama
• Instagram: @realselfishmama
• LinkedIn: @tina-unrue

Transcript

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Renee Lawless: I realized that I did not know when I lost myself. There wasn't one moment. There wasn't one decision. What I do know 1000% is the moment I put myself back.

Welcome to the Selfish Mama Matters Podcast with your host, and my mom, Tina Unrue. 

Tina Unrue: Renee, thank you so much for agreeing to be on the podcast today. I'm really excited to have this conversation with you and to dig into your story. Before we start, please introduce yourself, share your pronouns and tell us how you are showing up in the world. 

Renee Lawless: My name is Renee Lawless. My pronouns are she and her. And how I show up in the world is I'm a working mom who's trying to get it right, um, every day, one day at a time.


[00:00:53] What getting "right" means
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Tina Unrue: Mm. Oh my gosh. I love that so much. I, I mean, everybody resonates with that, right? What does right mean to you? And how well do you think you're doing at that? I just wanna know. 

Renee Lawless: There are some days, at the end of the day, I grade myself and go, not my best, not my best. Um, could, could have done things a little differently.

Um, getting it right is for me is definitely with what I've been given, what circumstances are happening now, and really sometimes what just needs to happen. You know that we get pulled in different directions every day doing the best we can. 

Tina Unrue: Absolutely. Amen to that. Because right isn't perfection. Right can't mean perfection because it just doesn't exist. And we tend to, you know, think that that is something that's achievable and then beat ourselves up every single time we fall short. And I can only say that because that's what I used to do too, right? 

Renee Lawless: Yeah. 

Tina Unrue: So right meant never yelling at my kid or never getting frustrated or never wanting to be somewhere else instead of playing Barbies for the 400th time, you know?

Renee Lawless: Yeah. 

Tina Unrue: Um, and so I completely get that, and I appreciate you mentioning that because sometimes we're at our best, we have our needs met and we kind of show up fully to the moment and do things. And there are other times when our needs aren't being met, whether they're emotional or physical or what have you and the circumstances are challenging, and we're just hanging on by a thread, and that is the best and most right thing for us to do in that moment. 

Renee Lawless: My kids know that, um, they'll ask me about work, you know, like we sit down and have dinner and they'll be like, how was your day? Right? We talk and with them, and even with work, I'm like, no one died and no one cried.

It was a good day. 

Tina Unrue: Mm. I love that. I love that. For those who are listening, I ask the podcast guests to fill out a form and share information about themselves. And I have to say that that was one thing that attracted me to your story, Renee, is the fact that somewhere in your writing you had mentioned that you know, you started to do things for you that made you happy and no one died and died was, you know, in these capital letters, right? And in that just one sentence, I was able to kind of get the gist of, of maybe the pre Renee or the pre life that looked a lot different than, you know, what it did in this newer life, shall we say. 


[00:03:43] The catalyst for shifting to a more selfish way of being
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What do you feel was the catalyst for kind of shifting you from a selflessness, way of living to a more selfish way of living? 

Renee Lawless: Like many others, I got divorced and I, it, it was a surprise to me. Um, and that was really the catalyst in which it makes you think about a lot of things, right?

You start taking apart what did you do or what did you say, or what did you not do right with your relationship? Um, but what I gained from the experience was a better sense of self. I really had to come to terms with the fact that when I took a step back and looked at my life from outside of it, I actually hadn't been present, but for myself.

I, the, the kids came first, the husband came first and I realized the dog even was before me. 

Tina Unrue: Hmm. Preaching to the choir. 

Renee Lawless: Yeah, so I took a hard look of where was, where was the who, who I resonated with in the life I had created. And there was very few tinges of the Renee that I, I felt I was. And so after, you know, initial grief, figuring out logistics, right, I realized that the most important thing I could do for my children to navigate through divorce was to be true to myself. So the Renee I am today was the Renee I was, I just wasn't, I just wasn't putting the time into respect and honor that person. And now, when I make decisions, how I view myself throughout the day, how I, you know, show up is much more true. And it's a, it's a constant thought of, is this what I want? And honestly, if it's what I want, it will then benefit my family, including the dog, including the dog. 

Tina Unrue: The dog even gets in this. I love that. I, you already know how much I appreciate this, this belief, this stance, right?

I think that the term selfish, being defined as something negative is absolutely ridiculous. Living a life more in line with who we truly are, not only benefits us, but those around us, because then we're just truly living to create a life that reflects us and what matters to us. And guess what? It's still our kids and the dog.

Right. And any other hobbies or interests that we have. And sometimes we clearly have not enough time in the day to give to all of our, you know, loves and passions and all the things that matter to us for sure. But the point is, is that selfishness I think it's just more than just centering things on us. It's more about using ourselves as our, our guiding light. Like we are our own lighthouse in essence. Right. We can always come back home to ourselves. 

Renee Lawless: And with that, and I completely agree. 

Um, it's a, it's a negative term and it needs to change because when I was selfish, the, the people who benefited the most were my kids because I was finally comfortable being the vocal person, being the extrovert, having friends. Right. I mean, I had lost my tribe. And when you're going through change, tribes are important.

Tina Unrue: Yes. 

Renee Lawless: You need that shoulder to cry on these, those people who go, yeah, he's a jerk, right? 

Tina Unrue: Mm-hmm.


[00:07:58] How parenting changed
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Renee Lawless: You need that. And I had lost it just over time, unconsciously. And my kids saw the person I was meant to be for them. I was the mom that I always wanted to be. I parent completely different now than I did five years ago.

And I'm raising two girls, and I'm always conscious of trying to make sure that they don't fall into the gender stereotypes that we have as women, as caregivers, as default caregivers. And so I realize that when I tell them I, I just need some quiet time, like, give me an hour. Then they started doing it. And when they needed to decompress after a school day and were like, Hey, I'm just gonna go to my room and listen to music, it was because I showed them how, I showed them how. It wasn't me telling them. They, they pick up a lot, obviously, you know, don't step in front of a bus. But it's amazing when I started to put myself first, talk about my feelings, ask for help, how they took that and they started applying it to themselves, which is the greatest achievement we can have as parents, is giving them the things that took us way too long to learn, now.

Tina Unrue: Right? I would think that that is probably one of the most powerful things that we could talk about here, is the fact that the, the hardships that we encounter in life like a divorce, ended up being something maybe that led to one of the greatest gifts, which is to give you back to yourself.

Renee Lawless: Yeah. 

Tina Unrue: Right. Or to shine a light on who Renee really was underneath all of the expectations and the kind of unconscious patterning that 

Renee Lawless: Yes. 

Tina Unrue: You know, we kind of get sucked into. So, when you mentioned that you parent different now, h how did you parent before? Just curious. 

Renee Lawless: Having a partner means a lot of compromise in many areas. And you come with different experiences having been a child, like everybody's parents are different. So I think for a long time there was this outspoken talk about your feelings, you know, person inside of me and it did not gel with my partner. 

Tina Unrue: Okay? 

Renee Lawless: So while I wanted to tell my daughters, if you are angry, own it. Go in your room, scream in a pillow, right? And then what are you gonna do about what made you angry, right? 

Tina Unrue: Mm-hmm. 

Renee Lawless: Are you gonna accept it or are we gonna work on it? And there there was things like that that I did not tell them I didn't parent to because it wasn't gonna gel with my partner.

Tina Unrue: Hmm. Oh my gosh.

Renee Lawless: Now and. There's, it's funny cuz I don't advocate divorce, but sometimes there's benefits to it. In my house, I am their parent and I don't, there's no toes. How I choose to parent, how I choose to handle a situation. It's me. You know, I don't, I don't have to necessarily compromise with somebody else in the room.

Tina Unrue: Right. 

Renee Lawless: Um, what I do have to do is, and my kids know this now, is, you know, in my house, I'm gonna parent one way and there's a certain set of rules, and then when you go to your dad's, there's a different set of rules. It's a different type of compromise, but not like when you are in a partnership and somebody's used to timeouts or removal of permissions and somebody else's let's talk about the root and figure out why you acted out and let's work on the emotional side that caused it. 

Tina Unrue: Right. Thank you for sharing that, because I think so many people either can relate to this experience right now or they can relate to it having been present in a prior relationship, you know. And for me, like my husband and I did not jive at all when my daughter was younger. And you know, it's kind of like you said, like everybody comes to relationships with their own baggage, right? I, and whether we like it or not, we have chosen this partner for a season or for life, right? to help us, I would hope, become our best selves.

And you know, it kind of sounds like, you had that intuition, like you had that, that knowing inside about what you wanted to say to your daughters and what kind of permission you wanted to give them and the boundaries that you wanted to have them learn how to set for themselves and the things that you wanted to empower them to do, and to exhibit in the world, but yet the partnership that you were in, stifled the ability for you to do that? 

Renee Lawless: Yes, 100%. 

Tina Unrue: Oh my gosh. And you know, in my house, I'm just so lucky that my husband just defaulted to me. If we're just gonna be honest, I'm, I'm just gonna be honest. Thanks, hon. If you're listening.

And so you are finding it, I'm assuming much more fulfilling now to be able to kind of just live in your authenticity and to be able to show up and parent your daughters as as it feels comfortable to you. 


[00:13:55] Handling parenting input
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Renee Lawless: And to be clear, I had arguments with my mom about parenting.

I have, my youngest is extremely, extremely stubborn and has been since birth, and I'm an only child. And so my mom would come over and say, you know what? This is what you need to do. You're not doing it right. And I had conversations with her, which as moms, we always get input from, you know, the peanut gallery.

Tina Unrue: Yes. 

Renee Lawless: And I had to also set boundaries with her saying, I, you know, I did what you did with me. It doesn't work for this child. And then there were times where, you know, she would talk about how they interacted as sisters. And I'd go, I don't know, I'm an only child. I don't know what it's like to have a sibling. Looks. They're not beating each other up. You know they're fighting. Okay. Um, they're only two years apart. It was like, I don't know, looks normal and no one's bleeding. Right. Because, and it would funny cuz I turn around to her and say like, I know you had brothers but you didn't have two kids. So recognizing again, what is best. Redefining right as best. It's, it's, that's it. It's, I did my best every day. If it was a good day and they got along, if it was a good day and they didn't get along. 

And in terms of boundaries with your partner and with others who are gonna comment about how you parent, there's sometimes gems in there that help, but otherwise you really have to, you have to feel it and you have to go with what you know works for today. Children change so fast, right. What people did 30 years ago may still work, may not apply. So you have to respect yourself and you can exert boundaries by, you know, and, and, and be respectful. Thanks, mom. I'll try it. You don't have to. She won't know. 

Tina Unrue: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. I know so many people who, you know, get really activated when family give their opinions, you know, about how to parent.

Um, and all I keep coming back to is, you know what's right for you. If it, if what they're saying resonates with you, then maybe there's some truth to it that is valuable for you to consider. But if it doesn't feel true for you, then you can just leave it. Yeah. That, that, everybody's gonna have an opinion.

Not to say that they should all just, you know, come on in, take some seats. Right. I'm, I'm listening to feedback today. I'm not saying that, but we all have, right? Like those family members who are just gonna tell us what they think, regardless of whether we ask or not. 

Renee Lawless: Oh, yes. 

Tina Unrue: Right. And we can handle that however we want. So I'm just, I'm really grateful for you sharing that as well, because I think too, a lot of moms who are listening struggle with getting the feedback, you know, from their own mother or father or aunt or whoever it is. Yeah. In their family that, you know, has that influence over them to be able to tell them, at least they think, how they should be raising their own kids, you know?

Renee Lawless: Yep. 

Tina Unrue: And standing in your own self is really a form of self-care that doesn't get talked about a lot. You know, we can get our nails done and we can go get the massages. But literally standing firmly in your knowing and not having to be combative about it is powerful and it's also like one of the best things we can do for our kids.


[00:17:45] Visualizing big emotions
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Renee Lawless: I've taught my kids cuz when they were younger right, them visualizing big emotions and, and um, dealing with people is a lot easier. I explained to them when dealing with friends, right? That's the luggage. Do you wanna carry it for them? And for them, they could visualize and go, okay, so somebody brought a lot of negativity.

Right. Or, and they were bullying. Right? And I was like, so they just put their luggage in front of you? Do you wanna carry that? And, it resonated with them. And there are some days when you deal with people and I actually sit there and visualize that person taking that giant heavy luggage of negativity or, uh, victim thinking, right?

Or, um, and, and leaving it in front of me. And I'm like, oh, I'm not picking that up. I'm not gonna carry that through the rest of my day and then question, am I right? You know, should I have done something different? Do I have regrets? So consciously visualizing that negativity as a bag that you are then gonna carry on you, and then by the time you get to the end of the day, yeah, you've carried that.

I said, pick up the bags that are about how awesome you are and how smart. Right. I said, take those. Those are light, right? Yeah. It's almost like that's like, almost like you walk on a cloud. Leave the luggage that's too heavy. Just leave it, leave it at the door with. Move on.

Tina Unrue: Amen. What a powerful statement and visualization to help people start to discern, especially for our kids what is ours and what we should leave for others to own and carry themselves. So good on you, mama. I like that. You might have to steal the luggage. 

Renee Lawless: That's all right. 

Tina Unrue: Luggage visualization. So, you know, I, we talked about this in our pre-talk before we started recording that, you know, there's a quote, and forgive me cuz I don't know off the top of my head who said it, so I don't mean to be disrespectful.

Um, but someone said self-care is childcare. Right? And, and you know, you said that in your form before agreeing to be a guest. And so it's just so evident from all that you've said, right, of how you've kind of leaned into yourself and how you then are able to more authentically guide your kids as to what adulting really can and should look like, right, while, while maintaining our mental wellness.


[00:20:32] Modeling adulting for our kids
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Renee Lawless: Yes. And to that point that adulting isn't, adulting is hard. I don't hide that from my kids anymore. Um, one of the things that I noticed early on is I started, uh, a, just a daily tradition of when we sit down for dinner, it was one thing that's was good today, one thing that was bad today and one thing that surprised you. And I would ask them right.

What I saw pretty quickly is they then asked me about my day. It wasn't just, I need to know what you did at school and I'm, you know, pretending that I, I'm participating cuz you know, I've, I've been at work all day and you've been at school. They understood the value of now we want your thoughts. And even now, you know, I check in with them, you know, they tell me their stories and they purposely say, and how was work?

Did you have a good day? And what I've realized is for the care that I've given them, they understand that I need care. And I don't have a partner. And we live, you know, in this house as a family. And that is a job that they can do for me. They, they can't pay the bills, they can't drive themselves, right?

But they can support and take care of me emotionally like I do for them. And I cried over it when I first realized of I'm, I, I asked for help. I tell them when things are tough. I tell them when I'm having a bad day, you know. And some of the best advice I've gotten is from them. And some of it was my own words where I had not followed and I had picked up someone's luggage and they were like, Hey, you were carrying their luggage all day, didn't you? Don't you remember you're not supposed to do that? And I was like, oh, you're right. You're right. So that's why that that self-care is so powerful. There's that adage. Uh, do what I say, not as I do.

Tina Unrue: Mm-hmm. 

Renee Lawless: And kids pick up so much subliminally, how you carry yourself, how you have a conversation with another adult when they're watching. All that stuff they're picking up and they're processing it. And they're going to just make it into, you know, they're gonna use it.


[00:23:09] What self-care looks like
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Renee Lawless: Um, so that self-care is being honest. I'm having a bad. Or I'm mad and here's why I'm mad. But then showing them how you work through the anger and what you do about it. Um, boundaries. Very clearly saying, you're starting to annoy me. I have, I have tweens. I have tweens and having a conversation and them, you know, being tweens and me saying, okay, this is where, this is where I'm gonna start to get a little bit angry. Mm-hmm. , because I'm asking you questions and you're not really working with me. 

Tina Unrue: Right. 

Renee Lawless: So yeah, like the things that I was doing for myself that I needed, I saw them starting to do with each other. I started seeing them doing it for themselves, and I started seeing them do it to me. And that's why, as you mentioned, being selfish is such a negative thing and in actuality it's so powerful and it's so powerful for moms to do, especially with their kids and especially with daughters, because they need to know it's okay to put themselves first.

Tina Unrue: Exactly, exactly. 

Renee Lawless: Selfish is, is just making sure that you're okay and then everybody else will be okay. 

Tina Unrue: Mm-hmm. Exactly. It's like the, you know, the analogy of the face mask on the airplane. You know, put the oxygen mask on first so that you can tend to your kids. 

Renee Lawless: Yeah. 

Tina Unrue: Um, and I know it's probably overused at this point, but it's still applicable people, it's still applicable.

Um, one thing I love is just to go to really the root of the word and the suffix. Self-ish, all it means is a likeness to self. I do not understand why creating a life like me is a bad thing. It doesn't mean that it has to be mutually exclusive to the things and the people that matter to me. Like I can make a life bountiful of the things that matter to me, which includes my kids.

Renee Lawless: Yes. 

Tina Unrue: Right? Like that is the point. And at the end of our lives, it will be about how we showed up. What did we choose to do with our life. It's not about not having really lived for ourselves and always being resentful and bitter because we were always trying to live up to the expectations of other people, right?

Like if we truly lean into ourselves and do those things like you've done, where you really wanted to create connection with your kids and you really wanted to just be honest, like, this is what's happening. And you had no idea exactly how things were gonna unfold, but you had the beautiful gift of seeing the reciprocity of it.


[00:26:18] Parenting is trial and error
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Renee Lawless: Yes. And, and it, it's one of those things of again, you, you're gonna, you're trying. Right? And like you said before, you're crossing your fingers and like, let's hope this works. Right. 

If there's ever a way in which to be confirmed, to feel affirmed, to feel validated that you are on the right path, that what you've done and there's doing is good for your kids, it's that. It's wait and see. Yes. Wait to see them have a conversation with each other, and they work out their own disagreement as sisters, but they use emotions. They, they're, they clarify when you say this, it makes me feel like this. And the other one going, oh, I don't mean that at all. Mm-hmm. And watching them have a conversation like that, I was like, oh, okay, no, this is good. And then you get confidence to keep it going. 

Tina Unrue: Yes. 

Renee Lawless: So, you know, some things work, some things don't. That's life. Yeah. But the minute you kind of start, you get those validating moments that you realize that the best you can be is being authentic and your kids see it and they'll grasp onto it and they, they'll be so much better off for it.

Um, . Early on, I had concerns about what my kids would know about healthy relationships. And my therapist was like, but you have healthy relationships. You might not be married anymore, but you have healthy relationships with your family, with your parents, with your friends. Mm-hmm. And those are examples. It doesn't have to be with a partner.

Tina Unrue: Yeah. 

Renee Lawless: And she said, but more importantly, you've shown them resilience. Change doesn't have to control you. You can control change. 

Tina Unrue: Absolutely. 

Renee Lawless: And yeah.


[00:28:25] EQ origins
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Tina Unrue: That actually is very aligned with kind of what I was gonna ask you because you sound very emotionally intelligent. Was that a product of like, training? Was it very intuitive, you know, even back when you were married and felt like you couldn't, give room and space to your kids to kind of handle their emotions the way they wanted? How do you feel you came to the awareness that you have now about, emotions and, and how you're guiding your kids?

Renee Lawless: Um, I think it was born. I think I've always been very attuned to people's emotions and energy, per se, if you wanna call it energy as well. Um, going through a coaching program increased my awareness and of the power and the conscious choice we could put towards energy. 

But throughout my life, what I've been told the most when people meet me or I make connections, is they go, I love your energy. Mm-hmm. And when I was younger I was just like, okay, that's cuz I'm, I laugh at everything and I smile and I'll talk to a wall. What I realized now, after doing a coaching program and understanding how important energy is every day to us, is that, that is what attracts like to like. 

Tina Unrue: Mm-hmm. 


[00:30:01] Energetic matches
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Renee Lawless: So when I go into a room because of the way in which I'm holding myself, the energy in which I naturally give off, it attracts people. It's not waving, it's not starting a conversation. So, I am much more attuned. I pay more attention to other people's energy.

I pay more attention to small emotional cues. I, I always love meeting people in person and I just love to see, you know, they say one word, but you could tell that they immediately kind of like retract. Yeah. And you're like, oh, that must be it, like, there's something not right. There's something they don't like about that part of their life. The words they use, I have to, that's, that's a chore. That's not enjoyment. So, um, I think I've always been attracted to people and want to make a connection that's, that's much more emotional. Um, I tell everybody that, you know, I meet you once, you're an acquaintance, and when I leave, you're a friend.

That's mm-hmm. the way I am. But I always wanna leave knowing the person, not what they do. Not maybe why I was in a room, cuz it's a professional network event. I wanna know the person. And that's emotional. Yeah. That's what, what excites you? What's your passion? What do you love? You know? Um, so over the years, I think I've honed my education, emotional intelligence, but it's always so that I can make a deeper connection with people. That's my goal. I wanna be truly somebody who knows you and understands you, and therefore I can support you. Whatever it's like, professional, personal. I just wanna be able to support you, but I wanna support, again, that real you inside you, not the person that you put on your LinkedIn, not the person that you put on your dating profile. The true you. 

Tina Unrue: Mm-hmm. I love that. Connection is a high priority and value of mine, and I think we're similar in that regard. Um, at least with our parenting. I'm an incredible introvert, so you put me in a room. I don't wanna meet everybody. I, I definitely care about their emotional status and if they come and talk to me, then I definitely wanna get to know them and connect with them on a much deeper level than talking about the weather or the drinks or food at the party.

Like the surface level conversation does not, uh, make me happy. But connection is just an incredibly important aspect to my parenting. And I think it sounds like for you connection it, not only does it drive how you parent, but it really drives pretty much all of the relationships that, that you encounter, right?

Whether it's strangers or lifelong friendships and family. How, how did you get into coaching? Was it after your divorce? 


[00:33:23] How coaching journey began
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Renee Lawless: Um, yes. Okay. Um, so I, I had been a stay-at-home mom for a short amount of time for really the first time, mm-hmm, um, when my separation happened.

So then eventually I, you know, was like, okay, I gotta get back in the workforce. And it was fine. I actually, again, because I'm so connected to people, the job was fine. What I get, what I get energized about is the people I work with and I worked with a wonderful, wonderful group of people and most of them I hired, but I, and I hired from because of connections too.

It was like, yeah, I read your resume, you could do the work. I wanna know you. Yeah, so I got fulfillment from my job, from the people, but I wasn't in love with the profession. Um, so, um, I really just started to do some introspection of really, my career was a lot of happenstance. I didn't, you know, say, oh, I wanna work in a cube one day.

My career just happened. I didn't actually do a lot of conscious choice about what I wanted to be when I grew up. I just got jobs and they paid the bills. Um, it was time for me to change that. 

Yeah, it was what do I really want to do? What do I really wanna be, what do I want my daily job to be? And I did research and what was really interesting is, I found coaching as a profession and realized that what energized me in every job I ever had was the fact that I was coaching. I was coaching my peers. I was coaching people who reported to me. I was coaching my managers ultimately, how I, uh, conducted myself in a job. My whole joy was coaching. So I was like, I already technically do this. Let me get more information, skills, and experience to continue to do it and do it exclusively. I did a coaching program and first and foremost it changed my life because I realized more about energy and emotion, mm-hmm, and what I was trying to do with people. Right. Uh, by making those deeper connections. Um, it validated for me putting myself first, making choices for me and how that directly benefits those around me. So it removed fear that I was experiencing of can I really go out every day and just think about me?

You know, is there gonna be detriment to that? Completely validated that. Um, and it's, I started using what I learned right away on me and on my kids. They'll actually tell me every once in a while, stop asking me coaching questions. Mm-hmm. Um, but I truly found a passion that I can have as a career. 

Tina Unrue: Yeah. It's a gift.

Renee Lawless: Um, it's a gift and I love it. And I wish I found it sooner, truly. 

Tina Unrue: I would say the same thing for me, changed my life. I chose it as a new career and my mind was blown, really. Transformed how I parent, how I interact with my spouse, how I show up at, at my full-time job at the time. Right? Every single circumstance, it's completely different.

Um, the thing that coaching born within me mostly was the concept of self-leadership and intention. And it sounds like for you, it opened up your curiosity about what you could explore going forward.

And there was much more of an intentional effort there. Yes. To take ownership in essence of where your career was headed as opposed to the happenstance that it had been, you know, up until that point. Um, another gift of a difficult situation, right? Nobody gets married to get divorced, or at least I don't think that they do.

Um, you know, and so, and I know that divorce can be incredibly traumatic on so many different levels and just such a challenge. But, you know, once we remove ourselves from even the most challenging situation, sometimes we can see that they can bear gifts. And it sounds like that's the case for you, given the fact that now you have more intention, mm-hmm, in your career and loads of connection with other people. 


[00:38:25] Your moment
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Renee Lawless: I, I call it your moment. You play back everything in your head, right, when your world is changing. You know, losing a job, reorganization, empty nesters, like when you have a unprecedented, large change, you are going through everything.

What, what did I miss? How could I have known? Maybe I could have avoided it, right? I realized that I did not know when I lost myself. There wasn't one moment. There wasn't one decision. It wasn't one day, it wasn't, you know, I, I got married and the next day I went, okay, I don't exist anymore. What I do know 1000% is the moment I put myself back.

And I think that that's what a lot of people experience. They, they have a job and they're paying the bills, and then one day they wake up and they're like, I've been doing something I hate for 25 years. You know, or I've been a silent partner in a relationship. Or I have no friends because I've never made the time to make sure that I keep adult friends. Um, I haven't been the parent I wanted to be because I don't exercise choice or I, or I let my partner lead and I disagree and I think I might be better. Right. All those things happen. We, we don't, we don't notice, but I call it your moment. I know exactly when I had taken a step back and realized I did not exist in the life that I was leading.

And I had to put it back. And from that day on, I check in with myself, is this true to what I need? Is it true to what I want? Is it true to who I am? And you can't go back. That's the one thing, the minute you turn on, you can't go back and you don't, you don't want to go back and then, after a little bit, you, you just shake your head and go, I don't even know who that other person was.

Mm-hmm. , who was that other person who wasn't validating and being true to themselves that that woman she tried, but yeah. 

Tina Unrue: That's powerful stuff right there. Don't know when you lost yourself, but you are completely and utterly confident as to when you got her back or recreated her right within the 

Renee Lawless: Yeah.

Tina Unrue: The life and circumstance that you have now. So, 

Renee Lawless: Yep. 

Tina Unrue: That right there is like the tweetable, clip, I have to say. Um, I've loved this discussion. I think we're gonna wrap here for today, even though we could continue to talk, it seems probably for hours.

Um, as we finish up today, tell me, you know, one or a few things that are mattering most to you in this season of life.

Renee Lawless: Um, that I'm always checking in with myself. Does it feel right? Is it, does it feel right now? Is it best for what's now? Um, and also you mentioned it before, you gotta go with your gut and see, see how it goes. We don't get instant results for some decisions. It takes a while to see what's come of those, and that's okay.

We, we don't have to be psychic. We don't have to predict the future. We, there's no way we can. So doing what's right is what's best, and then just enjoy it and see what happens. And if it didn't work, try something else. Everything's a version one, basically. I, I tell everybody, everything's a version one, you know, you tweak it later.

You learn from it. You tweak it later. 

Tina Unrue: Thank you for saying that. We need to give ourselves permission to change our mind. We can pivot. It's okay, people. Like, they just want the right answer. And what I hear you saying is there's a right answer for right now. 

Renee Lawless: The key word being now. 

Tina Unrue: Yeah. 

Renee Lawless: For what you know and what circumstance you're in, it's the answer for now. 

Tina Unrue: Right. 

Renee Lawless: Wouldn't wouldn't be what you did in 10 days. 10 years. It's now. 

Tina Unrue: Exactly. 

Renee Lawless: It's all we got. It's all we know and it's all we got. 

Tina Unrue: How can people find you if they want to connect? 

Renee Lawless: Um, my website is coachlawless.com. Literally like you don't have law.

Tina Unrue: Lovely. Thank you so much. I appreciate you being on. I appreciate you sharing your story, all of your golden nuggets about parenting and the luggage. And your moment. It, they're all just fascinating. I think so many moms are gonna benefit from the discussion, so thank you again for being here. I appreciate it.

Renee Lawless: This was wonderful. And again, we, we deserve it as moms. So anything that can help another mom get through the day, feel validated, I'm happy to do it. 

Tina Unrue: Amen. Thank you so much. 

Renee Lawless: Thank you.

Tina Unrue: This podcast was full of incredible wisdom. Renee dropped some serious guidance. How about the visualization of big emotions about carrying luggage? That was a great one. Another one was the three questions that she asks her kids at dinner time. And what I also loved was her perspective of, you know what? I prioritized myself and no one died. 

Not only was all of that wisdom and more dropped during our discussion, but the one that left a mark on me was the part where Renee said she didn't know when she lost herself, but she sure as hell knew when she got her back. 

I mean, come on. How many of you can resonate with that? 

I feel like when we become mothers, we know we're going to change, but we don't understand how much we're going to change. And it's not just becoming a mother that changes us. It's just the entire dynamic of it all. The journey of motherhood itself takes us on a spiritual and human and emotional and mental and physical ride that challenges, our identity. We literally become different people along the way. And her statement about knowing when she put herself back. It left a mark. 

Whether you can relate to changes in your life, post divorce. Or maybe you are still in the depth of struggle in a relationship where you don't feel like you have the autonomy or the freedom to be able to parent on your terms, please know that we see you and that we feel you. You are not alone. 

That is why I do this podcast. Renee shared some incredible tips during this episode, but at the end of the day, I want you to lean into the stories that are shared here because they matter. We can get caught up in our own lives and thinking that it is just us, that we are the only ones experiencing a struggle or a problem. And I want you to know that that is not true. There are so many of us fighting our own battles. Yes. But there is so much overlap and similarity among us. We are here. We are connected and we are a force to be reckoned with. Mothers are a force to be reckoned with. Connect with each other. Listen to these stories, share them with your friends. Please help yourself and others know that you are not alone. When we come together and share our stories, we become that much more powerful and we not only start to change our lives, we change the world. 

Consider reaching out to Renee or me, if you have questions about our episode, if you just want to say hi, And tell us what you appreciated about the podcast. We both would love to hear from you. And of course her information will be in the show notes. So you'll be able to contact her. And I hope you really enjoyed the episode. 

I would be deeply honored if you would leave us a review, share the podcast, rate the podcast just so that other mamas who might need to hear this message can find it and maybe get the same benefit that you did. Thank you all for being here. Thank you for daring to be selfish, and we hope to see you next time.